tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3752793.post3750292893509870691..comments2023-05-07T07:41:56.700-05:00Comments on Safe Haven: Jasonhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/05095369621205684858noreply@blogger.comBlogger1125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3752793.post-61678975010303354342011-03-10T20:40:58.513-06:002011-03-10T20:40:58.513-06:004.) Not at all -- "the undivided church"...4.) Not at all -- "the undivided church" is not necessary for a sola position (laudable as such a goal might be). <br /><br />3.) The Orthodox think the Catholics are schismatics, too...<br /><br />1.) I'm not sure how XI and XV contradict themselves. They seem straightforward enough... "Union with Christ" clearly is another side of the coin of deification. But potentially, theosis undercuts justification of any of the sorts that we in the Western Church like, if taken too far... not just forensic justification. As to forensic justification, I'm not sure what the problem is per se -- taken properly theosis/Union with Christ help to make sense of the the receipt of grace. If you take XIII into account, I think what we see is what the Reformed label (technically) as justification and sanctification is, in some real sense, what the Catholics speak of as justification. Both of these are subsumed almost entirely into theosis in the East. <br /><br />We ought not try to hide the differences between the churches, but I think the first key is not to read different uses of the same words as necessarily pointing to contradictory beliefs. This is at least similar to "illegitimate totality transfer." After hundreds of years, our words have diverged and created divisions beyond those really present. (But to insist that this is more than a word usage matter would be the same as to, say, accuse an Englishman of being deceptive for having a different size pint when we have merely failed to recognize that the Imperial pint is a different measure from an American one. The quantity of liquid in the container is the same, even if the Brit would assign it a different number than the American.)<br /><br />The question then is this: where do the Protestants and Catholics really differ in beliefs regardless of the words used, , rather than where do we _assign different words_ to similar or identical views (cf. the great "JK-Tim sacrament debate")?Timothy R. Butlerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09697871768109472900noreply@blogger.com