Skip to main content

He Deserves A Real Answer

Monergism is a cruel mistress. It's fun to stay at the RCIA! [Terrible. Just terrible.--ed.]
Labels:

Comments

Timothy R. Butler said…
That's an absurd example that I ended up breaking my moratorium on CtC to read... No thoughtful monergist would agree with that logic, obviously. I didn't realize where the link went! No fair! ;-)
3:32 PM
Jason said…
It's not CTC.
12:46 AM
Jason said…
Like "no true Scotsman"?
12:51 AM
Timothy R. Butler said…
No, more of a straw man. I don't know of actual monergists who speak that way. I'm sure you could dig up someone, but if even the craziest, nastiest representatives are fair play, then I could do the same and everyone could spend all day arguing about our respective straw men that are not even sort of representative. It makes for a good laugh if you enjoy beating up on monergism, but doesn't forward the discussion.

My argument has always been we should argue against a debate opponent's best representatives, not their worst.
2:15 PM
Jason said…
A "thoughtful monergist" is not a monergist at all, which is what he's trying to demonstrate. He's not representing a Reformed position; he's drawing a logical implication of it. It's a dilemma. You can't accuse someone of misrepresenting something you don't understand.
2:22 PM
Timothy R. Butler said…
And what don't I understand? I suspect I understand a good deal better than you are giving me credit for.

My point is, this sort of attack is used against Augustine even -- I've seen people do it. But, it misses the mark. Note that the "thoughtful monergist" (let's call him TM) doesn't deny James's statement that faith without works is dead. Rather, the TM will argue that while the work all comes from God, the life that God is working in will show fruit. Saying, "Well, I'm forgiven no matter what, so I'll just kill myself and enjoy the afterlife" doesn't sound like a life showing fruit, so -- Biblically, speaking -- I would say that such a person is the seed that fell on the rocky soil, not someone who is actually regenerate.

That's pretty much what TMs have said over the ages.
3:20 PM
Jason said…
St. Augustine isn't even close to a monergist.
3:23 PM
Post a Comment

Popular posts from this blog

Dear Alyse

 Today, you’re 35. Or at least you would be, in this place. You probably know this, but we’re OK. Not great, but OK. We know you wouldn’t want us moping around and weeping all the time. We try not to. Actually, I guess part of the problem is that you didn’t know how much we loved you. And that you didn’t know how to love yourself. I hope you have gotten to Love by now. Not a place, but fills everything in every way. I’m not Him, but he probably said, “Dear daughter/sister, you have been terribly hard on yourself. Rest now, and be at peace.” Anyway, teaching is going well, and I tell the kids all about you. They all say you are pretty. I usually can keep the boys from saying something gross for a few seconds. Mom and I are going to the game tonight. And like 6 more times, before I go back to South Carolina. I have seen Nicky twice, but I myself haven’t seen your younger kids. Bob took pictures of the day we said goodbye, and we did a family picture at the Abbey. I literally almost a...
Post a Comment
Read more

My Thoughts On The Harrison Butker Commencement Speech

Update: I read the whole thing. I’m sorry, but what a weirdo. I thought you [Tom Darrow, of Denver, CO] made a trenchant case for why lockdowns are bad, and I definitely appreciated it. But a graduation speech is *not* the place for that. Secondly, this is an august event. It always is. I would never address the President of the United States in this manner. Never. Even the previous president, though he deserves it, if anyone does. Thirdly, the affirmations of Catholic identity should be more general. He has no authority to propound with specificity on all matters of great consequence. It has all the hallmarks of a culture war broadside, and again, a layman shouldn’t speak like this. The respect and reverence due the clergy is *always due,* even if they are weak, and outright wrong. We just don’t brush them aside like corrupt Mafia dons, to make a point. Fourthly, I don’t know where anyone gets the idea that the TLM is how God demands to be worshipped. The Church doesn’t teach that. ...
Post a Comment
Read more

A Friend I Once Had, And The Dogmatic Principle

 I once had a friend, a dear friend, who helped me with personal care needs in college. Reformed Presbyterian to the core. When I was a Reformed Presbyterian, I visited their church many times. We were close. I still consider his siblings my friends. (And siblings in the Lord.) Nevertheless, when I began to consider the claims of the Catholic Church to be the Church Christ founded, he took me out to breakfast. He implied--but never quite stated--that we would not be brothers, if I sought full communion with the Catholic Church. That came true; a couple years later, I called him on his birthday, as I'd done every year for close to ten of them. He didn't recognize my number, and it was the most strained, awkward phone call I have ever had. We haven't spoken since. We were close enough that I attended the rehearsal dinner for his wedding. His wife's uncle is a Catholic priest. I remember reading a blog post of theirs, that early in their relationship, she told him of the p...
Post a Comment
Read more